UC - Sohei should be getting Flurry of Blows while armored


Vanilla Monk has these proficiencies:

"Armor and Shield Proficiency: Monks are not proficient with any armor or shields. When wearing armor, using a shield, or carrying a medium or heavy load, a monk loses his AC bonus, as well as his fast movement and flurry of blows abilities."

Sohei Monk has these:

"A sohei is proficient with all simple and martial weapons and with light armor."

Considering the line about losing the bonus while armored is gone, this should be taken to mean the Sohei archetype can do all that nice monk stuff armored, particularly benefitting from faster movement speed.

An FAQ stated that while the Sohei loses the AC bonus, it should still be able to flurry (and, since it is unstated, it should get faster movement speed too.)




September 19, 2014, 8:25 AM

Yo, don't sweat, take your time.

Also, of all the ones I opened, this is the most debatable one. I would outright close this one and work on the others, since the FAQ isn't clear on what happens to Fast Movement.

Andrew Maitland
October 8, 2014, 1:41 PM

This looks like a complicated mess. You have it under control David?

David Bender
October 9, 2014, 10:22 AM


No. I was looking at this last week and was getting really confused, so I unassigned it. Last weekend (10/4 - 10/5) was Camper closing weekend and it was a cold rainy one, and my son is getting married this coming weekend (10/11), so I do not have time to dig deeper into this, for another week or so. If you wish to do it, go ahead. And thanks for handling the other couple of Jira.

– david

Andrew Maitland
November 3, 2014, 1:15 AM

I think I hit my limit for fixes tonight.

Can I get a bullet list of what exactly has been agreed needs to be addressed, and leave the unknown out of the equation. My headache is giving me very limited brain power to decipher complicated requests.

Andrew Maitland
November 7, 2014, 10:31 AM

Nothing removes or disables Flurry of Blows, closing this out as unnecessary.

For the future requests, please, unless it is explicitly stated - wording in the benefit/description, FAQ, or an official Forum posting by Paizo, etc. don't request items based upon conjecture, inverse logic or contrapositive logic. For anything we base off of an official source book, it must be pretty black & white on intent and wording. Technically by our rules, the Sohei Gains Light Armor proficiency, Simple and Martial weapons. Nothing else would change, cause the Proficiency does not control the abilities, this would be considered a secondary source, or informational text at best. The change in proficiencies does not remove the restrictions placed upon it by the base class features unless stated otherwise.

Let me prove this point: By your inversion, by changing the weapon and armor proficiency, you nullified the actual class feature listed here:
AC Bonus (Ex): When unarmored and unencumbered, the monk adds his Wisdom bonus (if any) to his AC and his CMD. In addition, a monk gains a +1 bonus to AC and CMD at 4th level. This bonus increases by 1 for every four monk levels thereafter, up to a maximum of +5 at 20th level.

These bonuses to AC apply even against touch attacks or when the monk is flat-footed. He loses these bonuses when he is immobilized or helpless, when he wears any armor, when he carries a shield, or when he carries a medium or heavy load.

and this feature:
Fast Movement (Ex): At 3rd level, a monk gains an enhancement bonus to his land speed, as shown on Table: Monk. A monk in armor or carrying a medium or heavy load loses this extra speed.

If a class feature is altered, the archetype mentions it. Your Flurry of Blows is the only class feature that doesn't mention a restriction, which is an interesting item.


Won't Implement


Andrew Maitland



Source Books

PF - Ultimate Combat



Pending User Input



Affects versions