Swashbuckler Finesse not being counted as Weapon Finesse


Swashbuckler Finesse is not seen as equal to Weapon Finesse for use as a prerequisite to Slashing Grace or Fencing Grace (for example among others). Used to work on RC6, no longer works on RC8.

ACG_ABILITIES_CLASS.LST line 1907 is missing SERVESAS:ABILITY=Feat|Weapon Finesse

Adding the above fixes the issue across the board.


All platforms


Andrew Maitland
January 12, 2020, 9:57 PM

There was a reason I removed it.

I’m just going to flat out say I detest this class feature and it’s partial-ness. By granting the Feat qualification it was triggering something else that broke another class feature or feat which then cascaded into another group of players giving another bug report which then has this nasty back and forth of incomprehensible impasse.

I’m at my wits end. I either grant this and it breaks something else, or I don’t and then people complain about this aspect.

Ah, right found the bugger. Here you go, this is why this “simple” fix breaks this class.

This class wants a have a cake and eat it approach. Look at the end, both are saying give the bonus as long as the Player does NOT have Weapon Finesse. Whoops, we just told the program we have Weapon Finesse, and now these values are broken because we have the faux version of Weapon Finesse. Can you see why I detest this precious class feature?

So why bother with this code snippet if the answer is always yes?

I want this issue to stop popping up every other release. So, what is the answer?

You want feat qualifications, but I bet you don’t want incorrect values for your attack values.

The only solution I can think of is NOT use the feat as a qualifier, but actually just put a Boolean on the Feat and Class Feature to say QualifyAsFinesse and be done. And then hopefully no other feats rely on Finesse.


January 13, 2020, 2:05 AM

I see, I was not aware of this. What about simply granting Weapon Finesse as a bonus feat but call it Swashbuckler Finesse for display purpose? Keep it all the Weapon Finesse family rather than trying to create something new that breaks everything?

I use a highly customized version of your software so for me, this bug is more just a pain in the rear rather than anything game stopping. The issue I see is this: Because this is used with the “Cascades” as you talked about having something that functions is super important.

The way I see it is we have two choices:

  1. Take everything that requires Weapon Finesse and add Weapon Finesse OR Swashbuckler Finesse as the prequalifiers and then not use SERVESAS which seems to add to the borked nature of this whole thing because SERVESAS does not allow for any difference between the two. Then at the end of those two lines you pasted in, you’d have Weapon Finesse ONLY and wouldn’t add Swashbuckler Finesse. It’s a lot of work I think but it essentially builds Swashbuckler Finesse as a mirror feat to Weapon Finesse.

  2. Secondly, perhaps you eliminate !PREABILITY:1,CATEGORY=FEAT,Weapon Finesse because quite frankly how often do you really run into a problem where a Swashbuckler took weapon finesse? You’d never need it because you have Swashbuckler Finesse. Who is going to flush a feat?


I’m open to suggestions but I can of course fix it for my players but it seems without the prequalification it breaks the entirety of swashbuckler as a class given that slashing grace etc are all part of the class. A third option could be to change the behavior of SERVESAS in some way, but not sure exactly how.


Andrew Maitland
January 13, 2020, 2:29 AM

So, no to granting a feat with subtle differences, that would not follow the intent. And grant the Swashbuckler more benefit than intended.

For #1 - No, that adds complexity. For #2 - Uh, not going to mess with that.

Solution I opted to implement, all SERVESAS were replaced with a Boolean var, and the PREABILITY:x,CATEGORY=FEAT,Weapon Focus were replaced with a PREVAREQ:x,1 for the new Boolean value.

January 13, 2020, 3:11 AM

Sounds reasonable to me! I’ll test it now. Thanks!

January 13, 2020, 9:48 PM

Found that this may similarly apply to “Champion’s Finesse” in the Cavalier archetype Daring Champion.



Andrew Maitland





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